new gears

[85_Bronco]

so i got new gears for my bronco, and i have never put these in before. is this something i can do in my garage? how hard could it be??

[lowdown]

I'm assuming you're talking ring and pinion. If you don't have the tools or the know how already, get it professionally done. AOI can hook it up.

[85_Bronco]

i have most of the tools( and will buy the rest) but i have never done it before, and im out of andrews afb, so thats a long drive to AOI

[theshocker]

so i got new gears for my bronco, and i have never put these in before. is this something i can do in my garage? how hard could it be??

haha famous last words.....

[Shane]

i have most of the tools( and will buy the rest) but i have never done it before, and im out of andrews afb, so thats a long drive to AOI

wont be that long if you eff it up :)

[lowdown]

i have most of the tools( and will buy the rest) but i have never done it before, and im out of andrews afb, so thats a long drive to AOI

Go for it then, seriously. :cheers:

[Brandon95yj]

look if you have never done gears before I would highly recommend that you get a professional to set them up.

There is alot of precision to getting gear setups correct

[Happy Bear]

This article outlines the process pretty well. Unfortunatly, the pictures are down that go along with the article

http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup

Read that entire article and see if its something you feel confident attempting

[85_Bronco]

This article outlines the process pretty well. Unfortunatly, the pictures are down that go along with the article

http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup

Read that entire article and see if its something you feel confident attempting

lol, printed that off yesterday and im going to put these in this weekend if i get time.
ok poll time. how many people here pay to get there rigs worked on, ie. anyone who doesnt buy the parts and puts them in themself, "pays"

[Happy Bear]

is this a trail rig or street rig also?

[Z28YJ]

ok poll time. how many people here pay to get there rigs worked on, ie. anyone who doesnt buy the parts and puts them in themself, "pays"

I take immense pride in building my stuff myself and with my buddies. I am overly anal about a lot of stuff and spend a lot of time making stuff "perfect" rather than "good enough." That being said, as I am getting older and getting more responsibilities, my time for working on projects is decreasing. I can see paying for work in the future. My jeep took me about two years of on and off work to "finish." That is a lot of non-wheeling time. In the past, doing my own work was a way of proving to myself what my capabilities are. Now I know the level of work I am capable of and I don't need to prove it to myself. I only know of one 4wd shop anywhere around that I would trust to do work at the level I am capable of doing myself.

[dan58]

lol, printed that off yesterday and im going to put these in this weekend if i get time.
ok poll time. how many people here pay to get there rigs worked on, ie. anyone who doesnt buy the parts and puts them in themself, "pays"

I couldn't care less if someone pays to have a shop perform the work on their rig. I DO care that they actually wheel.

[atjeep]

ok poll time. how many people here pay to get there rigs worked on, ie. anyone who doesnt buy the parts and puts them in themself, "pays"

I do what I can, but if I think I am over my head I "pay". I have not yet done a set of gears, because it is pretty expensive if I fuck it up.

[Happy Bear]

A lot of us do our own work, and are certianly capable of doing so. Come along on a trailride, when a vehicle breaks down you'll quickly realize how mechanically inclined we are.

Ring and Pinions are something most people want to be reliable, it isn't a quick, easy, or cheap fix when they fail. Setting them up is one of the few mechanical jobs that involves judgement from the installer. It takes experience to know a good mesh pattern and what to do to bring the pattern closer to ideal while keeping everything in spec. Also, if you havent' checked backlash before it can be hard to get an accurate reading and be confident.

Like lowdown said, if you have the tools, aren't worried about reliability, have the inclination, and some patience. Go for it!

[Mike]

I couldn't care less if someone pays to have a shop perform the work on their rig. I DO care that they actually wheel.

I care when it gets to the point someone can't fix their own rig on the trail

[dan58]

I care when it gets to the point someone can't fix their own rig on the trail

I rarely, if ever, wheel with people I don't know. That solves that problem.

[Mike]

I rarely, if ever, wheel with people I don't know. That solves that problem.

and people wonder why the creepers are elitist pricks :flipoff2:

[85_Bronco]

is this a trail rig or street rig also?

both, i just try to keep my body strait it

[dan58]

and people wonder why the creepers are elitist pricks :flipoff2:

I resemble that remark. :dan2:

I've dealt with fawksticks when I have to guide at Rock Run. I'll be damned if I'm going to spoil a regular wheeling weekend by wheeling with someone I don't know.

[85_Bronco]

I take immense pride in building my stuff myself and with my buddies. I am overly anal about a lot of stuff and spend a lot of time making stuff "perfect" rather than "good enough." That being said, as I am getting older and getting more responsibilities, my time for working on projects is decreasing. I can see paying for work in the future. My jeep took me about two years of on and off work to "finish." That is a lot of non-wheeling time. In the past, doing my own work was a way of proving to myself what my capabilities are. Now I know the level of work I am capable of and I don't need to prove it to myself. I only know of one 4wd shop anywhere around that I would trust to do work at the level I am capable of doing myself.

i like to do everything myself, so far thats , motor(full rebuild/stroked, tranny, suspension, lockers, front and rear etc.) if i dont know how to do something, ill buy a book and read up on it, then try it. if i jack it up ill know how to do it next time.

[Brandon95yj]

if i jack it up ill know how to do it next time.


unfortunately that is not always the case with setting up gears.

Happy Bear,

you are dead on with your comments. It takes countless numbers of times to figure out what you are doing when setting up gears

[atjeep]

i like to do everything myself, so far thats , motor(full rebuild/stroked, tranny, suspension, lockers, front and rear etc.) if i dont know how to do something, ill buy a book and read up on it, then try it. if i jack it up ill know how to do it next time.

Everybody has their own motivation in this sport and some people just aren't big on wrenching. I like to wrench, and understand about the pride that comes from doing it yourself. But I like to have a reliable rig when I'm done too.

My concern about screwing up a diff is that if I grenade the diff because I set it up wrong, then I am probably going to be out a set of gears, a locker and possibly an axle shaft or two. That's an expensive lesson. Money is a big motivator for me. :D

I don't think anyone is trying to talk you out of doing what you want to do, just sharing their experience. Good luck with the gear install.

[md4wheelin]

i'm in the same boat as you, got all the tools and i'm going to give it a try. Only thing is I have a practice set of gears i'm installing before I step it up to the gears that I want. 3.55 gears now and I have a free set of 4.10 gears. Eventually I want 4.88 or 5.10 so if I mess up the 4.10 it'll just force me to swap in the lower gears a little faster. on a side note I would trail ride it first before taking it out on the street to see if you did the gears right. 10 mph over a long distants is a little more forgiving then 55mph on the street. But if you can only afford one set of gears i would get it proffessionly done.

do it yourself
$600 or so in parts plus many hours of trial and error (plus the knowledge of how to do it)
$1200 + if the first set gernades plus more hours of redoing it.

shop
$500 to $600 an axel so lets say $1200 and its done right the first time but you dont get the knowledge.

[Happy Bear]

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in, but if you set the gears up and they blow up. You are unlikely to cause damage to anything other then the ring and pinion itself.
Getting a piece of metal in the locker casing and damaging it is possible, but highly unlikely.
You will be out your R&P + an install kit + whatever it costs you to get home since your shit broke.

If its a strap back to your trailer, hey thats not to expensive, if its a 100 mile tow, thats expensive.

If it's a full day of your time to go home, organize getting a trailer, going back picking it up and towing it home. It really depends what your time is worth but for some people that is costing them a few hundred bones in time away from work.

Thats the reason people use shops to do the work, if your time is valuable and limited you have to choose what you do with your free time wisely and sometimes it makes more sense and cents to let a shop do the work.

The bottom line is setting up gears is not rocket science, anyone can do it and ensure that the gears are setup within the proper specs. Experience goes a long way in confidence and speed of setup.

[jpowers]

unfortunately that is not always the case with setting up gears.

Happy Bear,

you are dead on with your comments. It takes countless numbers of times to figure out what you are doing when setting up gears

See, here's the problem. To get to the 'it takes a number of times' part you really have to start somewhere and there really aren't many places that teach that kind of stuff in the area (if at all anymore).

The only thing I've got to say on this is:
1.) Make sure you have the proper tools, this really isn't something you can rig something to work.
2.) be patient. you're first R&P setup is going to take you the better part of a day, if not the whole weekend.
3.) measure once, measure again, then measure some more.
4.) Don't get too attached to the setup that you just forced in there, there's a good chance you'll have to pop it apart, pull the bearings, and do it again to get it right.

To me, its really not that much of a black art. Its immensely harder if you have to start with a blank housing or the original setup wasn't quite right. This will mess with getting the pinion depth right.

The rest is patience, tools, and alittle more patience.

Jason

[Z28YJ]

this really isn't something you can rig something to work

I agree with everything you said except this. The guy who taught me to build transmissions and diffs does it entirely by feel. Granted, he's been doing it for close to 40 years, but he uses literally no tools except an impact gun, some sockets, a press, and marking compound. No torque wrench to check preload, no measuring pinion depth, no measuring backlash, all seat of the pants. I've set up a few diffs that way, but I need him to check every step of the way....there is no way I have enough experience to do it strictly by feel on my own. The experience and knowledge my old boss has is extremely impressive.

[theshocker]

I agree with everything you said except this. The guy who taught me to build transmissions and diffs does it entirely by feel. Granted, he's been doing it for close to 40 years, but he uses literally no tools except an impact gun, some sockets, a press, and marking compound. No torque wrench to check preload, no measuring pinion depth, no measuring backlash, all seat of the pants. I've set up a few diffs that way, but I need him to check every step of the way....there is no way I have enough experience to do it strictly by feel on my own. The experience and knowledge my old boss has is extremely impressive.





wow. even if i was "that good" i would want to check my work to make sure it was in spec.:thumbsup:

[Z28YJ]

I'm sure that's what he did when he was young and learning, but after you've built 1000 caravan differentials, I guess you don't need to anymore.

[Brandon95yj]

I'm sure that's what he did when he was young and learning, but after you've built 1000 caravan differentials, I guess you don't need to anymore.


I can't say I installed thousands of gears but I done probably 80 to 100.

Everytime I always check and recheck the set up to ensure it accuracy. You can tell alot by feel, But I know for sure I can't tell pinion depth just by feel.


And Jason, I agree you have to start somewhere...where my opinion and yours diffetrs is that you should probably start by watching someone set up a set of gears or have an experienced person teach you the first time around. I book just doesn't do it for me.


But hey, to each is own...I just hate to see a guy grenade his diff just because he wanted to try it himself.

[Happy Bear]

So can anyone answer the question about damaging parts other then the R&P if it gernades?

If you do it with a cheap 4.10 gearset and this isn't something you want to be reliable is there any harm in trying to learn?

[Brandon95yj]

[QUOTE=Happy Bear;4485]So can anyone answer the question about damaging parts other then the R&P if it gernades?
QUOTE]


Every vehicle is different

You run the risk of breaking an axle shaft, driveshaft, u-joint, locker, or even spinning a carrier bearing







by the way there are also other things that no one is talking about...

for example if you do not know how to properly seat the pinion races in the housing you can bur the housing and potentially ruin the axle housing. or you could over torque the carrier bearing bolts and strip out the housing.

[CrawfishStu]

When I messed this up by swapping carriers and not changing anything I messed up the pinion and ring gear. I actually broke teeth off of both of them.

[jpowers]

I agree with everything you said except this. The guy who taught me to build transmissions and diffs does it entirely by feel. Granted, he's been doing it for close to 40 years, but he uses literally no tools except an impact gun, some sockets, a press, and marking compound. No torque wrench to check preload, no measuring pinion depth, no measuring backlash, all seat of the pants. I've set up a few diffs that way, but I need him to check every step of the way....there is no way I have enough experience to do it strictly by feel on my own. The experience and knowledge my old boss has is extremely impressive.

That wasn't quite what I was going for there, I've seen a few people do it like that, and it was pretty amazing.

I was more talking about rigging tools and such. You need a decent bearing puller/splitter, a micrometer (not a cheap set of calipers), 10-20 ton press most of the time. Trying to rig your way past that kind of stuff is asking for trouble.

Jason

[jpowers]

Bradon,
I'd def hate to see the guy mess his diff up. I think my only issue is that a lot of forums on the web rack this up so some sort of voodoo science that's impossible to learn if you didn't spend 20 years on a car assembly line. Its not, its definitely something that's harder to do than most of the things we do to our vehicles.

But if you've got good mechanical ability, the tools, and patience and are willing to deal with the damage that could happen if you make a mistake its not something you can't teach yourself.

Jason

[Brandon95yj]

Bradon,
I'd def hate to see the guy mess his diff up. I think my only issue is that a lot of forums on the web rack this up so some sort of voodoo science that's impossible to learn if you didn't spend 20 years on a car assembly line. Its not, its definitely something that's harder to do than most of the things we do to our vehicles.

But if you've got good mechanical ability, the tools, and patience and are willing to deal with the damage that could happen if you make a mistake its not something you can't teach yourself.

Jason

I don't disagree with you but I just don't want to see the guy installing the gears himself, blowing up the diff and then either having to do it again or taking it to a shop to get them installed.

if you have the tools to do it and are willing to risk blowing something up, go for it.

[Z28YJ]

if you have the tools to do it and are willing to risk blowing something up, go for it.

Story of my life, right there.

[Twiss]

I care when it gets to the point someone can't fix their own rig on the trail


I can't say I know how to fix everything on my rig.. I've learned alot from watching others fix stuff on the trail..

I will also be the first one to pull the rig off to the side and hop in with someone else the rest of the day (if I can't fix it)..



As for gears... I have set gears myself with no tools and it worked fine for a few months till I upgraded axles... I also installed those gears, but with the help of a buddy that (like above) uses no special tools and does it all by feel.. They worked great for a year, untill I added better axles... Then I had a pro do it...

Why? Cause I was having axles built and the cost of doing it myself vs them doing (COMPLETE AXLE BUILD f/r) was $200... For $200 it was done right w/ a warranty...


No harm in trying, but if your axle blows going down the road at 60, you could have some problems.

[RatLabGuy]

Re: the poll question asked...
I have done 100% everything on my 4Runner myself, with only one exception - I had the rear gears installed/setup for me. Bought the front diff w/ it already setup (used).

I know it's not rocket surgery, but I don't have the tools. Or more more importantly, as mentioned above.... the patience.