Axle advice

[Shane]

So here's the dilemma....

I have a set of 1 tons, built up allready. Im suspecting ill have to get them regeared due to the increased tire size i plan on running if i decide to keep them.

Due to the chasis i bought, i want to run a 44 inch tire and with the way i have been known to wheel i dont know if ton's would be advisable. Im also considering rear steer, and i will be doing tripple stick on my doubler while i have it out so would i be smart doing a rear dig on a steering axle? If i do this, should i upgrade to a D70 and set it up for rear steer and upgrade to alloys and ctm's?

Now what about rockwells? There money once set up, however even i with a tbi 350 with 44's shouldnt break to much on these. But there heavy as balls and i want to be able to crawl well and i think the shear weight will work against me.

Im looking for some advice, as ive never built a buggy, and dont want to half ass it and want it to actually work well.

[BBoarder]

you want rocks i think.

In my opinion, since the chassis is already built, the next important part is the links and coils w/tires. setting up your WB and ride height. Get that right and having rocks will not hold your back for crawling. Just dont make the thing a mile long or 2 stories tall. there are plenty of rocked buggies that kick ass.

[96zj]

the chassis already had rocks so why not stick with them? you know they will work

[Ripster]

I vote for this:
http://www.marylandcreepers.com/MCForums/showthread.php?t=291
Plus this:
http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.2631/.f
:thumbsup:

[96zj]

= $$$$$$$$$$$$ :lol:

[Shane]

i have the 14 bolt

the knuckles i bet are salty. Extreme 4x4 is running complete axles from those jokers and they certainly seem bling

[Ripster]

I agree the Ultimate 1550 knuckles are probably salty, but the Ultimate 60 knuckles did not cost much more than a set from Dedenbear or Crane. Like you said, you've already got the 14 Bolt.....

[Cerebus]

Will a 14 Bolt hold up to 44s and Shane's driving tho? ...I'd be surprised.

[Ripster]

Will a 14 Bolt hold up to 44s and Shane's driving tho? ...I'd be surprised.

I don't know of anything that would hold up to that. :flipoff2:

[dan58]

Tons will hold up to a set of 44s. 4.56s aren't going to cut it though. The deepest ratio you can run with the 14b is a 5.38. That said, you're looking at a grand to regear. If you sell your tons for even $2K, you'll be $3K into them. You can probably score a set of steering rocks for $1500 or less. Weld and go. That leaves plenty cash left over for a set of overson shafts for the rear.

[rj91jeep]

Tons will hold up to a set of 44s. 4.56s aren't going to cut it though. The deepest ratio you can run with the 14b is a 5.38. That said, you're looking at a grand to regear. If you sell your tons for even $2K, you'll be $3K into them. You can probably score a set of steering rocks for $1500 or less. Weld and go. That leaves plenty cash left over for a set of overson shafts for the rear.
i agree with dan

[mattjtowne]

Did he already sell the rocks that were in it? I know it was for sale for a long time and I believe the price wasnt that bad he was asking towards the end.

[Shane]

Yea he still had them but no one would buy them so he's just gonna use them in his new rig he's building.

I'll have to ask my guy if he can source some rocks for me and go from there



I need to get this movable so I can drop the tcases and trans into it

[Shane]

Yea he still had them but no one would buy them so he's just gonna use them in his new rig he's building.

I'll have to ask my guy if he can source some rocks for me and go from there



I need to get this movable so I can drop the tcases and trans into it

[twdjeepgod]

i run rocks and they don't seem to "stop me from crawling" this is my second vehicle with rocks. do i think they are the end all be all of axles? no. but do i think they they are a cheap way to get great gearing, great ground clearance (mohawked bottom) easily locked (detroit or welded) strong axle shafts (even stronger through overson) cheap rear steer (try building a cheap dana rear steer axle, mucho money)

but what do i know

[Shane]

i run rocks and they don't seem to "stop me from crawling" this is my second vehicle with rocks. do i think they are the end all be all of axles? no. but do i think they they are a cheap way to get great gearing, great ground clearance (mohawked bottom) easily locked (detroit or welded) strong axle shafts (even stronger through overson) cheap rear steer (try building a cheap dana rear steer axle, mucho money)

but what do i know

That's cool I've seen you do some silly shit with rocks and 42's.

[54ford]

I can get you rocks if ya need some. You can buy a set of rockwells for the price of a front 60.

[Happy Bear]

I can get you rocks if ya need some. You can buy a set of rockwells for the price of a front 60.
a pair of steering rocks?

I would go for the rocks with this chassis Shane. If you want to build it differently you should of considered other chassis's.

If you want to run 44's on your 60(not to mention w/a doubler)you will definitly need new knuckles, gears, and shafts.

They were talking about 14 bolts limiting you to 5.38's, you run a 14 bolt now, correct?

[Heavychevy]

I'll call the Rockwell guy tomorrow and see if we can get a group buy. I was hoping to make it to the Mud Bogs this week end and tell him what a Big Stud he is and kiss some ass but, didn't make it.

Right now he's $800/steering. If he doesn't come down I'll wait.

And I don't know what Todd knows but, I'm building the same rig as his only with A/C.:brow:

[Shane]

LOL nice. Lemme know. Rocks it is I guess ;). This chasis isn't bad for rocks or tons. It's no bigger then the s10

[Mighty Mouse]

The only reason I can think of to not run rocks if you want rear steer is if you want to do some high speed stuff. Also if your going rocks, skip the 44's and go for 47's or bigger.:D

[Mike]

or just buy the T-donk :D

[Heavychevy]

I'm waiting for a call back.

[94krawler]

Get what you want. Sell your tons if you want rock's under it. I know I've seen some people tell you to put the tons under it so you can wheel but its a PITA to do it twice. Do it once and build it right the first time.

[Heavychevy]

Get what you want. Sell your tons if you want rock's under it. I know I've seen some people tell you to put the tons under it so you can wheel but its a PITA to do it twice. Do it once and build it right the first time.

Agreed, now go back to lurking. You lurker.

[94krawler]

Maybe I just dont have much to say:flipoff2:

[Heavychevy]

That'd be a first.:flipoff2:

Just remember if anybody asks we don't know Shane.

[94krawler]

Shane who:lol:

[Numidian]

Get what you want. Sell your tons if you want rock's under it. I know I've seen some people tell you to put the tons under it so you can wheel but its a PITA to do it twice. Do it once and build it right the first time.

I'd have to agree with this... And Dan mad some good points about $$ :cheers:

[Shane]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/Loose_Nut/Picture003-1.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/Loose_Nut/Picture004-1.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/Loose_Nut/Picture001-1.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/Loose_Nut/Picture005-2.jpg

[b4wscrambler]

Never seen a low pinion Rockwell. Seems like a bad idea to me.

[dan58]

That looks like a good reason to invest in your own media blaster.:D

[Happy Bear]

Looks like fun working on those heavy bastards.....not:flipoff2:


That looks like a good reason to invest in your own media blaster.:D
Make sure you have a serious air supply(50 gallon tank or bigger) if you want it to be effective at all

[Shane]

Looks like fun working on those heavy bastards.....not:flipoff2:


Make sure you have a serious air supply(50 gallon tank or bigger) if you want it to be effective at all

the john deere wasnt all to happy lifting it out of the ford lol

[CrawfishStu]

How many shafts are messed up? Did you get two steering axles or what?

[Shane]

the john deere wasnt all to happy lifting it out of the ford lol

i have a large compressor that we use to work on a tractor trailer with. Wont be an issue


stu, nothings messed up however i have no idea what im looking at so maybe it is and im just to stupid to see it yet.

only 1 so far. baby steps.

[Happy Bear]

I take it those are the repezza style shafts??

Did you know you were getting repezza shafts or luck of the draw?

[Shane]

explain? That a good thing? Bad?

[Happy Bear]

There are 3 types/styles of axleshafts used in rockwells, all have different strengths

Style Max Load(ft/lbs)
Convel 4,310
U Joint 3,600
Repezza 3,200


Still strong shit, but you got the weakest rockwell shafts(I think). FYI a dana 60 stock shaft will take 2000ft/lb of torque, a 4340 should be ~10-15% stronger

How many balls are in the assembly?

[Shane]

i think i have 5 or 6 balls that came with this, maybe 4 i dunno. its all in a bucket.

[Jack]

Looks to be a good thread.

http://www2.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9265860&postcount=17

[Shane]

i have the one on the right.

i think im just gonna hunt out a u-joint style. less parts to brake and reminds me of 1 tons, but just bosser!

275$ for a set of long and short side shafts with joints. Anyone know if i have to change anything to makes these work?

[Tommy]

Anyone know if i have to change anything to makes these work?

It's been a number of years, but I don't believe so.

[Shane]

cool, good to hear.

any chance anyone know of a really good book on how to rebuild/build these axles?

[Happy Bear]

I read you will have to change the inner seal and one additional part, ill try to find it again later. Never done it myself though. For your 2nd one just buy a u joint style axle:flipoff2:

EDIT: I may have a manual to, lemme look.

[54ford]

There are 3 types/styles of axleshafts used in rockwells, all have different strengths

Style Max Load(ft/lbs)
Convel 4,310
U Joint 3,600
Repezza 3,200


Still strong shit, but you got the weakest rockwell shafts(I think). FYI a dana 60 stock shaft will take 2000ft/lb of torque, a 4340 should be ~10-15% stronger

How many balls are in the assembly?

Where did you get the max load numbers from? Just curious i have heard differnt opinions on which are stronger I have broke both style axles it was always the shaft that broke not the joint The ball and fork style dont like sharp turns make sure you have leave the stops on the knuckle in place.There should be 5 balls if i remeber right

[54ford]

i think too there is something you have to change to go from balls to ujoint

[Heavychevy]

For your 2nd one just buy a u joint style axle:flipoff2:.


For the record I sold it to him with only one axle so, he did get a good deal.

[54ford]

I'll call the Rockwell guy tomorrow and see if we can get a group buy. I was hoping to make it to the Mud Bogs this week end and tell him what a Big Stud he is and kiss some ass but, didn't make it.

Right now he's $800/steering. If he doesn't come down I'll wait.

And I don't know what Todd knows but, I'm building the same rig as his only with A/C.:brow:

does your rockwell guy have a truck that goes buy chevy eater?

[54ford]

If you are interested i have a spare front laying around i robbed the axles It is complete except for no shafts on either side 400 for that one and i have a rear with a detroit in it i will sell for 450 Just want the money i spent on the locker back

[Happy Bear]

54Ford, the numbers came from Steve Gerstner at Differential Engineering

The u-joint axleshafts are the only ones that are hardened so the other shafts are much more brittle.

[Shane]

If you are interested i have a spare front laying around i robbed the axles It is complete except for no shafts on either side 400 for that one and i have a rear with a detroit in it i will sell for 450 Just want the money i spent on the locker back

sold. ill pick up the front this weekend if that works for you.

[Happy Bear]

Shane, do yourself a favor and pick these seals up when you install the ujoint axleshafts.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352334

That should be all you need.

Rockwell axle shaft seals are notorious for leaking, if you do not buy these you will have gear oil leaking out of your axle tubes(especially if you intend to make them turn any sharper then the factory specs(32*))

You should also probably grab 1 piece boots at the same time unless yours are in really good shape.

And you thought rockwells were cheap! 4 seals X $55, 4 boots X $30
Your first $500 order of rockwell parts.:beer:

[Shane]

haha yea i never expected it to be cheap. :)

i looked at ouverson shit the other night and i determined how deep my wallet actually is.... not that deep haha

[Shane]

Even with having to get all this stuff, when there fully built ill have less in them then i do my stock 1 tons.

[54ford]

sold. ill pick up the front this weekend if that works for you.

I am thinking of going to Rausch creek for the comp this week end i will bring it with. i assume you dont want the brake drums cuz i think they are gone

[Shane]

I am thinking of going to Rausch creek for the comp this week end i will bring it with. i assume you dont want the brake drums cuz i think they are gone

nah im running pinion brakes.

Question, any way to get this big bish over onto my try with just us, oh wait, ill get tommy and bruce to help :D

[Heavychevy]

does your rockwell guy have a truck that goes buy chevy eater?

No it's NOT Rob from Shamokin with the 60" tires. :flipoff2: SHhhhhh

Never heard of him.:lol: Shhhhh

[54ford]

We should be able to find enough guys to slide it from one truck to the next. I should have a buddy with me to watch the comp. I hate these heavy bastards i crushed the tip of finger with a bare housing trying to move it around .

[Shane]

Cool ill probably be up there all day.

[Jack]

Not it. :flipoff2:

[Heavychevy]

My price included loading. I should have asked for more. I should be there to give you a hand.

54Ford, how do you know Rob? I told him I don't appreciate the "Chevy Eater" sticker. His shop is like freakin Disney Land.