Welder outlet wiring

[frosty]

I need to wire the garage for my MM180. Specs are


Requires 1-Phase Power
230 V, 21.7 A, 60 Hz

The panel is in the garage, the run wont be more than 4-5' at best and I am planning on using a 30A breaker. Unless running a bigger breaker would be better?

My question is on wire size. Is 6/2 or 6/3 overkill or is that what it needs? If overkill will it hurt anything being that big on wire size?

Would 8/2 or 8/3 or 10/2 or 10/3 be more suited for this?

I realize if I go with X/3 I'll need to cap off one wire.

[frosty]

Ok I did some looking which I guess I should have to begin with. 6/3 is way overkill and it looks like 10/3 300V wire would be good.

I dont plan on going with anything bigger in the future so unless suggested otherwise 10/3 I think it is.

[Jack]

I wired the garage for a 50 amp breaker, in case I jumped-up. I don't know how to tell the kind of wire. Seems to be yellow. ;)

[frosty]

The wire size will be on the yellow sheath somewhere. Its probably 8/2 or 8/3 if I had to guess based on some reading.

[Jack]

Nothing.

http://www.marylandcreepers.com/mcforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=632&stc=1&d=1279974708

http://www.marylandcreepers.com/mcforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=631&stc=1&d=1279974708

[frosty]

None of that wire looks yellow to me. :flipoff2:

[atjeep]

I used 6/3 and an electrician told me it was overkill, that 10/3 would be sufficient. On top of that, the 6/3 was a PITA to work with, because it is less flexible.
I would use 10/3 if I did it again.

I also used a 30A breaker.

[lowdown]

A 30A breaker will be fine since it only draws ~22A at full draw and the run isn't very long. You're going to need a total of 3 conductors.
Jack's pictures show a piece of 6/3 Romex. Sounds like you just need a piece of 10/3.
With #10, I belive you're right at the upper limit of the ampacity (30A) of the wire so with that said, you may want to step to #8 just to be safe.

[mopar]

Wiring stuff in the garage is one of those things that you should do overkill. .. I ran a 60 amp with 6-2 romex for my welder ... I also use the circuit for my heat pump blower in the garage. .. winter time = toasty

[Jack]

Let me see if there was spare...

[frosty]

A 30A breaker will be fine since it only draws ~22A at full draw and the run isn't very long. You're going to need a total of 3 conductors.
Jack's pictures show a piece of 6/3 Romex. Sounds like you just need a piece of 10/3.
With #10, I belive you're right at the upper limit of the ampacity (30A) of the wire so with that said, you may want to step to #8 just to be safe.

Now you tell me. :lol: I got some #10 and ran it. I dont foresee getting a bigger welder in this house or anything else that will require a bigger circuit out there. If so the outlet is literally 3' below the panel and it will be easy enough to change. But thats not happening.


Wiring stuff in the garage is one of those things that you should do overkill. .. I ran a 60 amp with 6-2 romex for my welder ... I also use the circuit for my heat pump blower in the garage. .. winter time = toasty

Normally I would agree with you but my garage is a tiny one car garage in a townhouse. I can fart in there during the winter and heat it up. :lol: I dont have any vehicles that normally reside in there and most work is done outside, much to the dismay of my neighbors, or over at Jack's house. :D


Let me see if there was spare...

To late, I grabbed some wire this morning. But thanks. I'll probably be over tomorrow to grab the welder if you'll be around.

Also I am far from an electrician but from what I can gather the neutral and ground in the main panel, which this is, are bonded and therefore sort of one and the same? I looked at how they wired the dryer and one other 30A breaker and the ground wire goes to the same bus bar as the neutrals do for the 110 stuff. They just ran it to the side of the panel they put the breaker on and brought the wire into.

[mopar]

a good electrician will separate his neutrals and grounds on separate tie bars .... but essentially they are the same

[lowdown]

W/240 there is no nuetral like Jack's pic shows, there's 2 "hots" and the ground.

[Jack]

Get your junk out. :flipoff2:

I'll probably be over tomorrow to grab the welder if you'll be around.

[frosty]

a good electrician

Then I'm not surprised.


W/240 there is no nuetral like Jack's pic shows, there's 2 "hots" and the ground.

Yeah thats what I was getting at. The grounds and neutrals both tie into the same bar in my panel. I would have expected them to be separate even if the bars are bonded. But they arent.


Get your junk out. :flipoff2:

:lol:

[RegularJay]

If the welder needs a 30 amp breaker then thats what it ahould have. Putting a larger "overkill" breaker in is Effing Stupid!! The whole point of the breaker is to shut off the current if something "bad" happens. Larger wire is fine 'cause you can't burn down your house that way but if your welder overheats and burns down your house and kills your family beacause you put in a breaker that is improperly sized then aside from having a dead family and no house the insurance investigator will also deny your claim due to hack job wiring.

[Jack]

If the welder needs a 30 amp breaker then thats what it ahould have. Putting a larger "overkill" breaker in is Effing Stupid!! The whole point of the breaker is to shut off the current if something "bad" happens. Larger wire is fine 'cause you can't burn down your house that way but if your welder overheats and burns down your house and kills your family beacause you put in a breaker that is improperly sized then aside from having a dead family and no house the insurance investigator will also deny your claim due to hack job wiring.

Who are you talking to?

[RatLabGuy]

In summary - if you can get some #8, use that for "expansion" room but #10 is fine.
Use a 30A breaker now, and if you upgrade the welder later, you'll swap that for a 50A at that time.
The end.

[mopar]

my welders have fuses in them .... i guess i kinda assumed they all did

[Broncolou]

In a house it is OK to run grounds/neutrals together at the main panel. The water pipe ground and the ground rods both connect to the neutral bus for what is called Bonding. Any sub panel must have the grounds and neutral separate. 30 amp wire is #10. You can run that up to 75-100' depending on load w/o issue. 10/3 is fine for that circuit on a 30amp breaker. Jacks picture was of a GFCI breaker which has a neutral connection. 220v GFCI breakers are rare except for hot tubs/spa's.

[Jack]

HA. That was the Hot Tub. I took a photo of the wrong one. :confused:

[frosty]

If the welder needs a 30 amp breaker then thats what it ahould have. Putting a larger "overkill" breaker in is Effing Stupid!! The whole point of the breaker is to shut off the current if something "bad" happens. Larger wire is fine 'cause you can't burn down your house that way but if your welder overheats and burns down your house and kills your family beacause you put in a breaker that is improperly sized then aside from having a dead family and no house the insurance investigator will also deny your claim due to hack job wiring.


Uh yeah, who are you talking to? I dont see where anyone said to put in a bigger breaker or that I even was. I was, did and always had planned to put in a 30 AMP breaker.

Your tighty whities a little to snug or something?

Anyway everything has been installed. 10/2 wire (which I am sure isnt code but its getting pulled out if/when we sell so I am not worried about it), 30 AMP fuse and a 6-50 outlet.


In a house it is OK to run grounds/neutrals together at the main panel. The water pipe ground and the ground rods both connect to the neutral bus for what is called Bonding. Any sub panel must have the grounds and neutral separate. 30 amp wire is #10. You can run that up to 75-100' depending on load w/o issue. 10/3 is fine for that circuit on a 30amp breaker. Jacks picture was of a GFCI breaker which has a neutral connection. 220v GFCI breakers are rare except for hot tubs/spa's.

Cool, pretty much what I had read and what I ended up doing other than using 10/2.

[frosty]

HA. That was the Hot Tub. I took a photo of the wrong one. :confused:

Oh great! When my house burns down and I am dead I'll be over to blame it on you. :flipoff2: