RCRocs Race Series

[CrawfishStu]

Have you guys been following the rules section? If you plan on running in this with just a few mods to your trail rig, then chime in on your thoughts for the safety rules.

I can't build a new rig to run this thing but would like to get out there and have fun.

http://www.rc4x4.org/rcforum/index.php/topic,6112.0.html

[Mike]

The door rule and the seat mounting rules bother me, but I understand the need for them.


Vehicles using factory doors must have a secondary, permanently mounted latching mechanism inside to hold the door in place should the factory latch fail.

I think if the stock latching mechanism are sufficient enough. Since all vehicles must have a cage, make the horizontal door bar a universal requirement.


Seats must be mounted to a secure structure attached to the cage or mounted directly to the frame in a safe manner. Mounting directly to the floor pan will not be allowed without having a support extending to the frame rail or cross member.

I think the stock floor mounts are sufficient enough.

[CrawfishStu]

Does the floor mount have anything other than through the pan. Is there a section of doubled formed sheet metal. I would call that a crossmember of sorts......but I drive a unibody rig

[Numidian]

The door rule and the seat mounting rules bother me, but I understand the need for them.



I think if the stock latching mechanism are sufficient enough. Since all vehicles must have a cage, make the horizontal door bar a universal requirement.


Just get a little piece of chain and wrap it through the door and around the B-pillar.... Wallah secondary mechanism that won't break! :lol::lol:

[Mike]

Does the floor mount have anything other than through the pan. Is there a section of doubled formed sheet metal. I would call that a crossmember of sorts......but I drive a unibody rig

Tacoma seat mounts & floor pan.

http://image.4wdandsportutility.com/f/10710754+w750+st0/0812_4wd_26_z+2001_toyota_tacoma_prerunner+seat_mo unt_base.jpg

http://image.4wdandsportutility.com/f/10710673+w750+st0/0812_4wd_06_z+2001_toyota_tacoma_prerunner+strip_i nterior.jpg

I just think the factory mounts are strong enough...seats and doors typically don't go flying off of the truck during a wreck.

[twdjeepgod]

but seats tear from floors in hard rolls at speed and send you flying

i think that is the reasoning behind the seat securing

as for door latches? seems strange to me, but i don'y know anything

[Happy Bear]

There are definitly some simple methods to pass these tech rules. Brennan just posted one of them. A ratchet strap would probably get you through tech as long as it was routed in a safe manner.

For the seats I would bet that a steel support won't need to go all the way to the frame. 2 Sandwiching plates of appropriate sizes should be adaquete.

[domba]

The seat mount thing I definitely get, I've done over 30 cages at AtoZ in the past year and you would be pretty surprised how many of the seats were barely attached. Alot of rigs that weren't really beat too. As far as the door rule, I would think most rigs would be fine, but if soft half doors are considered factory some of those door latches definitely don't seem trustworthy for a high speed barrell roll.

[dan58]

Happy Bear, where did you get those nifty little accordion looking things you use for axle tube vents?

[frosty]

Happy Bear, where did you get those nifty little accordion looking things you use for axle tube vents?

I dont know where he got his but you can get them from http://www.trail-gear.com/diff-breather.html

[Happy Bear]

yea, trailgear or www.pscmotorsports.com They are reffered to as a bellow

[CrawfishStu]

The seat stuff is awfull. I'm having a rough time with fitting the new racing seats in the zook. It's really tough to do with one person. Last night after about 5 hours of work.....I was litterally further back than when I started. I have a new attack plan. Simple design mounted straight to the frame with gussets and extra room either way on the mount so i can get the seat where I want it. I've already got the design laid out and just need to cut some steel and do the welding. I have lots of work to do to make the sept run.

[frosty]

From some quick reading it appears you can get something very similar for a whole lot cheaper from a local craft or fabric store. They are clear but should do the same job. Its called an adhesive dispenser and you'd just need to cut the end off and voila, diff breather. I am checking into that now.

Edit: Looks like they can be found at ATV dealers/parts places as well. Part number for a Bombardier dealer is 705400066. In either case you should be able to source the parts for 2 axles for $20 or less.

[Rockn93yj]

I just got in a set of 4 of those vent bellows and the were actually quite hard compared to ones i've seen before. I think i may boil them to soften the rubber.

[dan58]

yea, trailgear or www.pscmotorsports.com They are reffered to as a bellow

Cool. $5.50 a pop is decent.

[frosty]

Cool. $5.50 a pop is decent.

Not bad but shipping is retarded IMO.

[dan58]

Not bad but shipping is retarded IMO.

I didn't actually get that far to see how bad it would be. I'm sure a better solution can be had, but they just look dead simple for the axles and t-case.

[Rockn93yj]

PSC-VB01 PSC Vent Bellow $5.50 4 $22.00
Subtotal: $22.00
Shipping*: $13.06

Total: $35.06
Through polyperf. no reason for shipping to be that expensive but...

[doug38s]

crankcase vent tubes that go on any polaris/kawasaki/etc...you can get them at any bike shop. just ask the tech about the accordian looking thing on the engine and they are like 2 bucks. If someone needs some I can get them in Frederick. I usually get like 20 at a time.

[kbjeepin]

A good example for the seat thing is if you are cruising through the woods at 40 and hit a tree the tub could crinkle and the cage stay in place. That would really hurt having the seat move and the seat belts you have to the cage stay put. Plus a lot of seat mounts are crap from factory and it is better to make everybody do the same thing then go through every single vehicle and check every bolt and mount.

[Typhoon]

I never really gave it much thought.
I thought the seats were always mounted to the cage in cage design?

[CrawfishStu]

If you are talking about a rig that has a real cage and not some bolt in number. I figure by the time you have racing seats in there you have them tied in right anyway.

My seats actually wound up being mounted pretty well. I made a two basic T crossmembers for each seat that is welded directly to the frame. 3/16" 2x2 tube. Those things aren't going anywhere.

[dan58]

What about 'pane with the rear firewall? It can't "slosh" at you.

[Shane]

i helped cut one of the trails for this about a week ago. Its pretty nice.

heres a teaser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJciS3npbDc

i have 1 other but its long. ill post it when i find someplace to put up a 16 minute video

[CrawfishStu]

What about 'pane with the rear firewall? It can't "slosh" at you.

Huh?

[dan58]

Huh?

That was the reason for the rear firewall. Gas could "slosh" toward the driver in the event of a tank failure.

[CrawfishStu]

yeah. I don't mind a splash shield of some kind....but an entire firewall.....that sucks.

[doug38s]

cover the bed of the jeep with a piece of lexan or aluminum

[Rockn93yj]

cover the bed of the jeep with a piece of lexan or aluminum

fuel would still slosh under teh seat in the event of fuel cell failure.

[Shane]

run solar power, problem solved.

[doug38s]

run a piece convering the wheel wells side to side. You guys are thinking way to much into this.

[Happy Bear]

run a piece convering the wheel wells side to side. You guys are thinking way to much into this.
I dunno Doug, that was my plan, but from the threads on the RC forum it looks like I will need to build a firewall that is below the height of the panel covering the rear bed opening. I hope they don't turn anyone away from the first event as long as its not a critical item like cage. They have Matt running tech and he seems to be serious about it.

[doug38s]

build a box that covers the fuel cell.


I think they should probably look around at some of the other sanctioning body's and what is acceptable and realistic.

[dan58]

build a box that covers the fuel cell.


I think they should probably look around at some of the other sanctioning body's and what is acceptable and realistic.

A rear firewall is neither of those.

[Broncolou]

From Bruce...



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Re: RULES
« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2009, 09:35:11 PM »
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OK guys here is what we are going to do for this fall and then going forward into 2010. We are looking at this falls two races as a jump start for the 2010. We are going to back down on the fuel cell rules that we have listed in our guidelines for 09.

We are giving you these two races to feel things out and see if this is something that you (the teams) want to do and are willing to make the jump for next year. So please treat this fall as “fun” with hopes of going forward towards a great race series next year.

Matt has spoken with Jeff Knoll of KOH and for 2010 they will be making the following rules stick for tech and we are also going to follow suit. This will give you two races to see if you like this style of racing as well as the winter and early spring to change anything you may need to meet tech.

OK so here is the language from the KOH rule book that they and we will follow for 2010.

Hope this helps!



1. All vehicles must have an all metal firewall separating the occupants' compartment from the danger of fire from the engine and fuel supply. A minimum firewall must be liquid tight and extend from body side to body side. If engine is rear mounted, a firewall must be liquid tight and extend from drivers shoulder height to floor and extend from body side to body side. If rear mounted fuel cell is higher than drivers shoulder height, a firewall must extend 2" above the top of th e fuel cell.

2. there must be a substantial cross member and firewall between the fuel tank and occupants.

3. Rotary molded polymer cell's are permitted when encapsulated in a container constructed 20 ga. steel or .060" aluminum

[Broncolou]

They are letting up on the rules for the 2 races this year only..... come out ,have fun , if you like it..... it is real rules for next year. They are very concerned for the safety of the "average wheeler" who may get into "over their head" speed situations. It is a lot more to "gettin it" ,while racing , than the average guy realizes. I am always fearful of my first wreck at speed. It is not a matter of "if", it is a matter of "when".:(

[Numidian]

If they had some sort of stock class that my 4runner would fit into...I'd be tempted to give it a shot.... But I know that even if they went to a stock class, my 4runner wouldn't be anywhere near fitting in it...

All of you people who have full bodied rigs...don't be retarded and chop it off to do a leaf spring swap....

[breakinshit]

If we are going to get some sort of a stock class for next year we need to make a showing at the two races this fall. I am all for a 35" class for the next year race season. I discussed this with the group that runs the races at the last rcrocks. What I gathered is they do not think there would be enough participants to make it worthwhile. Hopefully we can get enough of the small tire/stock class guys out to the next two races to show them this is not the case.

[doug38s]

great in theory but as you said when it comes to put up or shut up there are a lot of people that talk a good game but dont do crap. Wahhhh there should be a small tire class.....wahhhh the rules are too strict.....wahhhh KOH should make another class for the average guy. Then where does that wahhhh baby show up? No where....on the sidelines......watching us.

Just build something to run in one class and be happy there is good racing on the East Coast.

[breakinshit]

I dont have any urge to drop the cash to build a KOH rig. I do not think the rules are too strict, but I would like to see a "Jeepspeed" style class with very strict rules to keep it competetive for guys without the high $ sponsors. I will be there with my junk this weekend and the november race, so honk as you pass me. I did not think the intent of the rc races were to be the same as KOH. If they dont add another class I may or may not run next year.


great in theory but as you said when it comes to put up or shut up there are a lot of people that talk a good game but dont do crap. Wahhhh there should be a small tire class.....wahhhh the rules are too strict.....wahhhh KOH should make another class for the average guy. Then where does that wahhhh baby show up? No where....on the sidelines......watching us.

Just build something to run in one class and be happy there is good racing on the East Coast.

[RatLabGuy]

If they had some sort of stock class that my 4runner would fit into...I'd be tempted to give it a shot.... But I know that even if they went to a stock class, my 4runner wouldn't be anywhere near fitting in it...


Ditto here!
I'm racing my relatively stock 4Runner (still IFS) in the ECORS race, did it at the 4x4Cross back in Mat w/o problms.
BUT those don't have lots of big rocks, it's more conventional trail riding etc and actually do-able in a stocker as long as you use lots of skinny pedal and not concenred about body damage etc.


If we are going to get some sort of a stock class for next year we need to make a showing at the two races this fall. I am all for a 35" class for the next year race season. I discussed this with the group that runs the races at the last rcrocks. What I gathered is they do not think there would be enough participants to make it worthwhile. Hopefully we can get enough of the small tire/stock class guys out to the next two races to show them this is not the case.

I agree w/ you, personally think there's be more than enough stockers show up... hell look at the last 2 May races in NC, both cases had more registrants in A class than any otehrs... and right now the ECORs Fall Brawl has 2x as many A-class signed up as B and C.
IMO the key is, as mentioend above, the course has to actually be do-able by these folks and reasonably accessible to get into. The biggest problem I'm seeing here is all the safety tech requirements. I COMPLETELY understand why they are in place, but they essentially sqeeeze out the stockers... full cage, fixed seats not mounted to floor, etc. These are not things you have in a $2,000 stocker rig. Should they be there? yes, probably, esp for the kind of courses involved here where rollover is reasonably likely... but many of the "stocker" guys just don't have the cash to do that level of upgrade JUST to get into a race.


great in theory but as you said when it comes to put up or shut up there are a lot of people that talk a good game but dont do crap. Wahhhh there should be a small tire class.....wahhhh the rules are too strict.....wahhhh KOH should make another class for the average guy. Then where does that wahhhh baby show up? No where....on the sidelines......watching us.

Just build something to run in one class and be happy there is good racing on the East Coast.

Agree w/ you that is def a problem, you just accept that w/ this level of racing and difficulty, if you want to do it, you HAVE to be commited enough to do the complete build and not just enter using you el cheapo POS rig.

I have no problem with tehre simply being different levels/kinds of racing. The beauty of KOH is in fact that it's geared towards that kind of vehicle, it brings out the biggest and baddest. It'd be stupid and IMO really degrade the quality of the race to try and make it a stockers event, who the hell wants to deal with all te hcongestion and mess of a bunch of stockers trying to do that and just ending up broken everywhere?
There's soem real value to avoiding the "bubblegum racers" (the guys that show up w/ a $50 junkyard XJ held together w/ duct tape and bubble gum, they have no investment/time/care into), in teh end they just clutter the field when they break down. Yes it can be pretty funny (want some of the 4x4Cross vids) but slows everything down for the rest.

All this said - if this was something I could do in my vehicle, I'd be there... sure as hell rather go 2 hrs to RC than the 7+ hr trip to NC.

[doug38s]

Yeah I dont think the guys have it in line for it to be the end all like KOH is. I just think having one big class of racing makes for tons of sense.

I was just refering to the guys that talk about it all the time and talk about "maybe" putting their vehicles out there and never show. Regardless of entry fee's, perfect weather or the like.

I wont pass you because my rig is faster. I'm just willing to lose bigger than the next guy. :flipoff2:

Ratlab...I agree....i would love to see a full on class of stockers with a course that would be doable. If I could I would run that class too if it could be figured out somehow. Tough part would be logistics of determining a course that could accompany both classes so you didnt have guys all over the place and taking up the whole park. Maybe a course that had go arounds with marshalls at the tough points where only the stocker class guys could take the go around and the regular class guys had to give it hell. Maybe a time deduction bonus if a stocker made the tough climb? That would definately throw some fun into the mix.

[kbjeepin]

just to let you guys know I ran 90% of the course in Lynn's Tj. Its locked and with 35's. It is doable and sometimes slow and steady wins the race. Just ask that turtle from the fairy tales.

[atjeep]

sometimes slow and steady wins the race.

You just gave away my super-secret strategy! :flipoff2:

[RatLabGuy]

Ratlab...I agree....i would love to see a full on class of stockers with a course that would be doable. If I could I would run that class too if it could be figured out somehow. Tough part would be logistics of determining a course that could accompany both classes so you didnt have guys all over the place and taking up the whole park. Maybe a course that had go arounds with marshalls at the tough points where only the stocker class guys could take the go around and the regular class guys had to give it hell. Maybe a time deduction bonus if a stocker made the tough climb? That would definately throw some fun into the mix.

That's actually how the last 2 4x4Cross races in NC have been, and I believe the plan for the upcoming ECORS one in Oct too. Everybody runs the same "course", but at the harder obstacles, there are different lines defined for different classes, essentially A-class takes the bypass, C class must take the hardest path possiblee :popcorn:. That kind of equilobrates it.

[atjeep]

Pearson convinced me the way to lobby for a "smaller" class is to show up for what is available to us now. He has been trying to get some of us who don't have bad-ass buggies to come out and compete in regular trucks to show that there is enough interest to have a separate class.
The management at RC have made it easy for us average guys to compete by relaxing the rules a little this year. There really is very little excuse not to show up if you want to do this. You have to support the events to make them work.

[ShadyTJ]

Hey guys just a side note from the RC side of things. Pearson and I talked after the last RCrocs event and I hear his words about having a small class. Problem we have is the amount of work it will take to have two classes for only a hand full of guys to come run in the lower class.

Correct if there is enough support for that class we would open up the talks again for two classes.

Not saying anyone here is web wheeling but it is easy to say "I would run if they had a class for me" and then not show up. If we (RC and the teams) can find enough people to say yes for a class for next year then yes we would look harder at it.

With that said we could try in NOV to have a two class race if we had support from teams with 100% we are in for lower class.

Later guys

Bruce

[Happy Bear]

Hey guys just a side note from the RC side of things. Pearson and I talked after the last RCrocs event and I hear his words about having a small class. Problem we have is the amount of work it will take to have two classes for only a hand full of guys to come run in the lower class.

Correct if there is enough support for that class we would open up the talks again for two classes.

Not saying anyone here is web wheeling but it is easy to say "I would run if they had a class for me" and then not show up. If we (RC and the teams) can find enough people to say yes for a class for next year then yes we would look harder at it.

With that said we could try in NOV to have a two class race if we had support from teams with 100% we are in for lower class.

Later guys

Bruce
Thanks Bruce, I think we are all thrilled just to see how this one goes!

[Appalachian Offroad]

Happick we must suck, because these guys still beat us...:doh:

On a serious note I was glad to see no one got hurt.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmkElMZD3Y

[atjeep]

Wow.

In case you haven't seen it, here is Bigelow and Carter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ6e8Q61reY

[RatLabGuy]

^^ 2 nearly identical looking blurs.

Pretty much how it was all day.
Well, until Blur #2 lost a whole wheel.

[RatLabGuy]

Happick we must suck, because these guys still beat us...:doh:

On a serious note I was glad to see no one got hurt.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmkElMZD3Y

How did I not hear about that?
Pretty funny.

[Appalachian Offroad]

I need to start wearing white gloves...



http://www.4lowdigital.com/pics/rcrr-017.jpg








:frosty::thumbsup:

[doug38s]

Hold on real quick.....I got a funny story.....what the hell are you doing...arent you still in the race?

[Happy Bear]

Hold on real quick.....I got a funny story.....what the hell are you doing...arent you still in the race?
We were in it to finish :thumbsup:

Just saw the clip of Geoff Stoppard on fire. Damn that looked scary! How about Park before you jump out of the truck :confused:

[dan58]

We were in it to finish :thumbsup:

Just saw the clip of Geoff Stoppard on fire. Damn that looked scary! How about Park before you jump out of the truck :confused:

When they bailed out of the truck, they knocked the t-case into neutral. :eek:

[frosty]

WJust saw the clip of Geoff Stoppard on fire. Damn that looked scary! How about Park before you jump out of the truck :confused:

From what I read they did but one of them hit the tcase shifter while scrambling to get out and knocked it into neutral. Luckily they werent seriously hurt but it looked like the co-driver was slow to move after his fall.

[Happy Bear]

yea just read that also, pretty unlucky!

[gr8whytyj]

From what I read they did but one of them hit the tcase shifter while scrambling to get out and knocked it into neutral. Luckily they werent seriously hurt but it looked like the co-driver was slow to move after his fall.

The co driver was alright he welded Will Carter's axle back together in the middle of the woods!